Bob Budd, Executive Director of the Wyoming Wildlife and Natural Resource Trust, joins Haley on the podcast this week to discuss how ranchers can rethink the wildlife roaming their properties for what it truly is—an asset, not a liability.
Bob walks us through how landowners across the West can approach habitat management with intention, sharing real-world examples of small adjustments that lead to meaningful gains. He also highlights why healthy soil, water, and wildlife are the foundation of long-term land value.
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Wyoming Wildlife and Natural Resource Trust
Haley Mirr (00:06):
Welcome back to the Land Bulletin Podcast, where every other week we bring you experts in the field to impart their knowledge when it comes to the ranch and sporting property market, buying and selling advice, the latest best stewardship practices, as well as topics that impact landowners every day. I'm your host, Haley Mirr. Let's jump in.
Welcome back to the Land Bulletin Podcast. I'm Haley Mirr, and today we're going to be looking at wildlife, embracing wildlife and kind of integrating that into your management of your own ranches and seeing it as a value add rather than something you need to control or prevent. Helping us out today is Bob Bud. Bob Bud is the Executive Director of Wyoming Wildlife and Natural Resource Trust. He's also has worked with Jared in the past and Ken Mirr. So we're just grateful that you've found some time in your very busy day to talk with us today about wildlife and management across the state of Wyoming.
(00:57):
So thank you, Bob.
Bob Budd (00:58):
Glad to be here and to you, thank you.
Haley Mirr (01:01):
So before we get started, some of our listeners, we like to educate them on all of the different organizations that are out there and help landowners across the west. What is the Wyoming Wildlife and Natural Resource Trust? What's their role? How do you guys help landowners, just kind of on a broad spectrum before we get into the nitty-gritty?
Bob Budd (01:22):
Sure. The Wildlife Natural Resource Trust was founded 20 years ago. 2026 will be our 21st year by the legislature at the insistence, if you will, of then Governor Dave Freedytown. And the purpose, we have a corpus in a trust account of a little over $200 million, and that stents off revenue every year for projects that we do. Independent landlord, private, federal, state, doesn't that. They're brought by NGOs and by government entities. And they run the gamut from conservation easements to river restoration, wetland creation. We've done a lot in the last few years with invasive annual grass issues where we've gone in and controlled those. We've done prescribed fire. Pretty much anything out there that is in a habitat improvement. As I like to tell people, the base for everything in Wyoming comes out of soil. And healthy soils, healthy raves, lands, health and forests, those are our basic underpinning of life or mistake.
(02:29):
And so anything that contributes for that and helps that, that's what we work. We do about $10 million a year on our end. Currently, we're matched five to one from other sources, be that federal, private, NGOs, foundations, charities, whatever it might be. So for every dollar we put in of the earnings on the stakes fund, there's $5 coming in from other sources to achieve the Jackie Canada.
Haley Mirr (03:00):
Wow, that's amazing. And what's your background? I've done a little research on you, but what's your background? How did you get connected with the trust? Where have you been connected with ranching in the past?
Bob Budd (03:11):
So I'm a fifth generation wildly kid. My great-great-grandfather founded the town of Big Piney and family ranched all through that. On my maternal side, my grandfather bought a ranch in Dubois in the early 1930s and ranched there for years. And then on my educational background, I got degrees in animal science and ag business my first time around at the University of Wyoming. Went to work for the Wyoming Stock Growers Association. I was there 15 years. While I was there, I got my master's degree on range management, focusing on habitat and quality. Wow. Then went to work and managed a ranch for the Nature Conservancy in the center in SKU for 12 years or had a chance to raise our kids in agrarian rural setting, which was very important to my wife and I. And then when this program was created, it was just a perfect fit for what I did, which I've always believed that ranching and conservation were one saying, without ranching, we wouldn't have wildlife.
(04:16):
And without wildlife ranch, it would be as much fun. So when this job came up and I was selected to do it, it was just a perfect fit for me. And it's been a great, great ride for the last 28 years.
Haley Mirr (04:32):
That's amazing. So you out of anyone would best know our first question is, what role do private landowners play in preserving wildlife and populations out west?
Bob Budd (04:43):
Well, it's an absolutely fundamental. If you look at the way that the west was settled, nearly all of the land that is associated with water is private. There's probably not hardly any species out there that you can say doesn't rely at some point on private lands for its existence. Be that in a migratory fashion or a how many birds it spends the summer and get tiny or whatever species you want to pick, those private lands are absolutely fundamental to wildlife. And it's one of the concerns that we have now as we see those lands getting converted to non-wildlife uses. Some of those things can be a real impedible. On the other hand, if people are managing for wildlife habitat at the same time to manage either cow habitat or sheep habitat or whatever else it is, they can actually be a lift to those populations and those species.
(05:44):
So it's an absolutely fundamental.
Haley Mirr (05:48):
And conversely, in your opinion, kind of broad picture, and then again, we're going to go into specifics about what you guys are seeing in some projects, but what are some of the ways wildlife stewardship can then impact ranch operations in a positive way?
Bob Budd (06:01):
Well, there are countless ways that that can happen. If you look at keynote species like beaver, what they can do to store water in the soil and have that richarian zone widening and add war green forage earlier and later in the year, that's one example. Pollinators are wildlife too. And pollinators are critical and we know that we're losing a lot of those now. And wildlife, some wildlife can be a financial advantage. There are people who do fairly well on wildlife through hunting or sightseeing or recreation that is adjacent to that, whether it's watching wildlife or being out doing the cowboy thing, whatever it is. But yeah, they're a mutually beneficial thing. We found at Red Canyon when I was there, by managing wildlife in certain ways or by managing our lands in certain ways, that we could use wildlife to enhance some of the things we were trying to achieve.
(07:05):
And that includes how you rotate your livestock vis-a-vis how those animals will rotate themselves. But here, the big ones are things like geever, pollinators, things that we all rely on for healthy ecosystems.
Haley Mirr (07:21):
And it might seem overwhelming to, especially new landowners when they look at it and they're like, “What should we start to focus on? ” What is one way ranchers can start to think about it and start to improve wildlife habitat? Where should they start? Where is the big picture? “This is where my land is. These are the tools at my disposal or is that too big of a broad question to really hone in on for some of these new vendors?
Bob Budd (07:44):
I think the big thing we always have advocated and we get and have done and we do with people that we work with now is, do you have a plan? Do you have a vision for what it is you want this landscape to look like for all you have to get wrong? And then number two, is that a realistic vision? I went out with a family a couple of years ago, probably about free now, and they wanted to talk about what their vision was. And it was a beautiful vision, but it was absolutely unachievable. They were talking about having maple groves on area piece of ground that there hadn't been a tree on ever. I was out with a family here a couple of years ago, and they had a beautiful vision for what they thought that their place should look like. It was a great visit.
(08:34):
We spent all day and we talked about what the ecological realities were and what the potential was vis-a-vis the soil type they were in, the kind of rainfall they had, and ultimately said,” What you've got is a really healthy prairie ecosystem here that gets into the forest ecosystem that you're really jazzed about, but you can't make the forest ecosystem live where it came in. “And so I think being realistic, I encourage people to get involved with probably three areas that I would tell them to get involved. Number one is their name. Learn what the country is like, learn what people have learned from the country, understand what the potential is out there and understand where your limitations are. Number two, conservation districts are a massive resource and going in and sitting down with them and figuring out what it is that you might want to do or what you might want to achieve vis-a-vis what their ability to help them do it athletes.
(09:35):
And number three is join and be accurately engaged in organizations that are habitat banks. There are many of Western Landowners Alliance, the Rocky Mountain Delta Foundation, Meli Fanatics, there are lots of roofs out there that their role is to come in and bring expertise and say,” Yeah, here's some things that we think you could do. ” Usually it doesn't cost anything. That's what they're set up to do. Work with the State Game and Fish Agency, work with your irrigation district. All of those are focused on trying to deliver a sustainable ecological product, but the most important thing you can have is envision or goal for what it is it's important to you. And then don't be afraid when somebody like me, the big bad guy turns in and says,” Well, that's a great vision, but it isn't going to work here. “So you take your branded vision, you bring it back to your app.
(10:33):
And that place that I'm talking about, it's stunning what they've done. They've gone in. We've helped pay for a lot of that, but they've gone in and restored a lot of their has from woodlands. They have healthy, unbelievably bitterbrush stands. They're forage for deer in winter and heat transitionally. It is a wildlife variance.
Haley Mirr (10:56):
That's amazing. Is there a lot of other resources beyond the trust? Because I know some of this, while landowners really want to do it, some of it can be really expensive and it might seem a little overwhelming. Are there other tools or national programs, state programs that people tend to look for when trying to accomplish these things?
Bob Budd (11:13):
There are a ton of. The easy ones, the low hanging fruit obviously is the natural resource consormation service. They do a fabulous job. The Forest Service has things. If you're adjacent, there's public and private forestry money. State Division of Forestry is another one. You can look, we'll find gain fish, we'll put money into projects, and then you've got a wide range of net NGOs and non-governmentals out there, many of which are strictly habitat. It's presents forever, well forever, Ducks Unlimited, Rocky On Elk Foundation, Mulely Fanatics. I've left somebody out, but there is a whole root of those that are very professional. They bring money to the table. A lot of times what they bring is designed and a gut check for what it is that you're trying to do. We work with those all the time. Working through your conservation district is really a strong way to get things done.
(12:12):
And then one of the things that's being done throughout the West now is collaboratives and properties where you got landowners working with the NGOs, working with the state agencies, working at the federal agencies. I just spoke to a group like that in Podraski last week on Thursday, and it's inspiring to see the kind of things they're doing and the fact that they're all working together and they're all pulling in one direction. And that's where somebody might say,” You know what? I'm really interested in lesser prairie chickens or greater prairie chickens. “And another person says,” I'm really interested in holiday. “When you find out those two things are actually very mutually acceptable and build on that and pretty soon you got the magic car.
Haley Mirr (12:55):
Well, it just goes to show land doesn't really stop at the fence line. You got to be collaborative with your neighbors and the regional aspects in order for wildlife to really be impacted in a positive or negative way. So it's neat that there's that many opportunities out there for landowners. What are some of your favorite ways or stories you've told us about one of the landowners you've worked with in the past and how beautiful it's become at their ranch, but some other stories of ways that ranchers did a little bit of adjustments to their management practices and had a larger impact on habitat at large?
Bob Budd (13:29):
Well, they're hunts and they haven't been in this line of work all my life, which is adding up to bay. So I think when the light goes on and people say,” This is what I want to do, “and the mind opens and the people are saying,” Okay, I want to see what I can do. “Then they start asking questions. In my hook honors dance, I talk about how ranchers speaking questions. Ask somebody something, I'll see them for two years and they carry right on conversation. And I think that's when that mine cracks open and then it's a giant flood of information to you, but it's everything from looking at wildlife-friendly fences that allow panel to pass underneath the deer to get over the top. It's understanding and knowing where those migration corridors are. That's a big thingy water here. And the landowners, people out there generally are incredibly valuable because they can say,” Yep, every year about the middle October, we'll get a snow storage here come to be.
(14:35):
Here's where they go. Here's where they stop and here's where they rest. “Those kinds of things. But pastor rotations, thinking in terms of seasonal grazing and how that works in a concert with the aspen regeneration, embracing fire, embracing flooding, egracing beaver, those kind of things that are relatively simple but are massively impactful. Having an open mind to doing things. We've been working on a project over at Southern Wine now for about eight years, which every year we add about 40 or 50,000 acres of treatment for the oak forest and for the sagebrush grasslands better brush for removal of juniper for sagebrush and those kinds of things. And you just keep adding to it and adding to it. And it comes infectious because the neighbors see it. Well, you see it on the neighborhood. I think the big thing is to keep a mind open. And what somebody said, keep your mind opening a mouse shut and listen to people and say,” I'm interested in moose.
(15:51):
“A lot of people were interested in moose than the arteritule. So just that's the two things I think that I see in people. And when that happens, then they just get excited out there. We want to show you the pond we're on the teal grid. They want to show you those things and never forget the big tool that we have at our disposal is a cow. It is an incredibly powerful tool and managing those livestock can be tons of bring huge benefits to wild.
Haley Mirr (16:26):
I think that's what people, other than rangers, don't quite understand, is how impactful in a positive way cattle can be to habitat, the retilling of the soil and getting these things going. I think that's kind of a common misconception about ranching and its impact on a habitat. And obviously there's a middle ground with all of that, but I'd love to know a little bit more about how cattle impacts habitat and how you can use that as your advantage in making sure habitat is where it should be in ranching.
Bob Budd (16:57):
Well, the big thing, they can be damaged. Just like fire could be damaged them, flood could be damaged. All of these things could be damaged. None of us are going to break the plant on our own. But I think the thing that you want to think about all the time is what we taught people in the classes that you got, you have to have an outcome to work tree. If you're just doing something to do it or you're not thinking in terms of what those impacts are, you're not really managed. So if your goal is to have more sage barrage, you probably will look at a different raisin strategy that if your goal is to have less saging, if your goal is to reprove riparian areas, what we did at Red Canyon was we bombed those areas early in the year with cap is before the willows started to grow.
(17:52):
You had competition from grasses of those areas. You went in, those cows wanted that grass so bad they've been eating out of a bale of hay all winter long. They wanted something green and something soft and they'd go in, clean that up and then stay out of there in hoc summer and let the willows and just completely restored a lot of riparian areas by simply managing the time and timing when you use those areas. Likewise, if you know that you have an area where mule deer winter, you may want to look at enhancing bitterbrush production there or sage brush production or mahogany production. And that would be a different razing strategy. But as we did the work we did, we mapped the ranch, we had those things figured out. We knew where the animals wanted to be, not only the cows, but also with wildmine.
(18:42):
And then we'd start to manage toward what was really beneficial to them. And that's when you see fatter deer, see more ducks, whatever it is that you're really jazzed about.
Haley Mirr (18:55):
What are some of the initiatives you're really excited about that are happening in Wyoming at a larger scale? We've had Mule Fanatic on the show. I know they're doing a ton. We love those guys, but are there any bigger initiatives that are kind of Wyoming statewide that you guys are excited about when it comes to having that?
Bob Budd (19:14):
The one right now, and excited may not be the right word, it is, but we have drawn a bead on invasive amnio assets. And we put in, in the last few years, we were almost up to a hundred million dollars that we've allocated to address that issue. And we've had good success. Right after all the fires we had in 2024, you'll probably recall those 25, both of those years were tough. In 24 in particular in the Northeast, it burned nearly a million increase. And getting on that right away, and again, with that local involvement, we had all the foots where we get the NGOs, west districts, conservation districts, landowners, and building a strategy for how to address that. And all the tours that we did this last summer are pointing in the direction that, you know what? We may have gotten ahead of that for once.
(20:13):
It's not going to happen overnight because we let the invasivege happen over decades. And so now you've got to think about, all right, how do we undo that? That's one that I am very excited about. Another that I think is ongoing, it's not new, but all of the work that's gone into migration and animal movement and looking at areas where we were losing human life, we were losing wildlife. The property damage was through the roof and we've been in the last few years able to create wildlife passage both over and under our highways. That's still an ongoing effort led by the Gate of Fish Department where we end up funding water.
(20:53):
That's another one that I think is really, really cool. We spent probably in a pretty hardwiring way the last 15 years on fish pass, removing barriers for fish to go their native swatting areas and I mean literally hundreds of miles, if not thousands of miles of stream now accessible to fish that worked before. And that's in partner with irrigation districts, farmers, ranchers, and others. So we've got a lot of things going on. Wetlands right now are back. They're kind of catching fire, which I love those projects. We did a lot of them early on. Then the kind of projects kind of rise and fall and ends. And then the one that probably, I think the takeoff, the two, and they're related, SageRouse Habitat and Uyrhabit and Real Earthing while they're global on our agents, they are absolutely iconic in West and they've had some tough going.
(21:55):
So there's a lot of work now going into yield air habitat improvement, woody draw restoration, removal of invasives, enhancement, bitterbrush, mahogany, sagebrush, the things they browse on in winter. Those are all areas that we focused on. I could go on and on, but those are probably kind of the top north ends that we're working on.
Haley Mirr (22:17):
Yeah. We had Jacey Arnt with the Imagine on the podcast a couple days ago. She's amazing. But I told her, I'm just so grateful people like her exists that care about these things and are putting the work in and figuring out solutions. So it's nice that … And private landowners are the biggest advocates of all of this because more than anyone, they want their lands and their habitat to be sustained. So kind of that working relationship with everything, it's cool that it's like these statewide things are actually taking place at a larger scale.
Bob Budd (22:50):
Yeah. And I think the way we look at it, they're statewide, but they're regionalized. And so to watch, and JC may have told you about it, the Northeast Welding, basic grass working group is several counties and they all meet together and prioritize. We have the same thing going on in Western Wyoming, and that's catching on now. People are starting to say, let's look at what our priorities are and not just go spray something, spray it. Let's know why we're doing it. Let's know what our retreat gets like. And we've been fortunate that you've been able to fund that at a very, very high level, not as high as we probably should, but higher than what we ever have.
Haley Mirr (23:31):
That's amazing. And where are you the most excited? Where do you see the future of some of this wildlife management and habitat going? And the state of Wyoming or regionally, like you've said, all of this kind of takes a regional hit more than just statewide, but how do you see the future of this kind of leading?
Bob Budd (23:49):
Well, I hope that there are two sides to this. One is that it could lead in the absolute wrong direction. And we've seen habitat fragmentation, you're on front rage. We've seen that in some areas here as well, but I think that where the upside is that we are having civilized conversations that at the beginning of my career ignites. We have people now that may have very, very divergent views politically or otherwise. It can set those aside and start talking about the resilience of our landscapes, the health of our ecosystems, and do that and keep that the primary objective without getting into a lot of other issues that we can see all that we want to just turn on the TV. But it's almost a little, I mean, this is the right time to ask because when the Olympics are on, we're all firms. We're all, right?
(24:49):
I'm a huge Olympic junkie and I just jazzed. I mean, I stayed up the other night and I said, “What are you doing this? ” I was watching the Olympics and she said, “What was so exciting?” I said, “Lonnie, it was biafa guys being shooting.” And I don't know why, but I am into that. And the next day I was into the skeleta or whatever. But at that point, we're talking in commonality. And I think that that's where I see the upside of olives so that people are not afraid to share the things that they have wonder about, but at the same time, they're not afraid to ask questions and say, “What kind of things could we recommend?” And the beauty is that hopefully you continue sustaining us, that there's money to back that up, that there is a flow of funds, private, federal, state, otherwise, that can help keep that momentum built.
Haley Mirr (25:49):
I'd like to think too, Wyoming has always been the great equalizer. I feel like land and habitat, you guys have figured out how to make that the front runner and figure out solutions. So to your point, people who think differently, the end goal is always the same, which I always have admired about your state. It seems to work well up there.
Bob Budd (26:09):
We call it the Wyoming way, and I think it hasn't always been, but it is exactly what I described where I remember the first time when he created our sage grouse team here in Wyoming, went into governor and said, “We think we ought to put people on there for mining, oil and gas, ranching, conservation groups, federal agencies, all these all at the same table to come to some kind of a solution.” And people look at us like they had two heads say, “How do you work? It can work.” And it has been that we use that same model with migration, we use the same model with invasive. People are willing to pitch in and find a solution. And I think having everybody at the table keeps us from having a solution that is somehow that carves somebody else out. They can't be at one entity's expense and be a valid solution, and that's what we all focused on.
Haley Mirr (27:10):
That's great. And I would love to know for new landowners, I know part of this podcast is to educate people as they enter into that new space of owning land. What would you give even existing landowners advice on how to leave their land better than when they found it? You're a fifth generation rancher, your family knows it better than anyone. What's that advice you would give to people entering the space?
Bob Budd (27:37):
Oh, boy. I actually was asked about long ago by the university and they said, “What do you think we can do to help agriculture?” And I said, “I think you need to develop a course to new landowners that they can take that goes through how to be part of a community.” If you're a new landowner from the East Coast, the West Coast, the urban center, it's going to be a shock when we buy that ranch in Big Piney Wilde or Lendo, 200 people. The amenities are a little different and I think engaging. And we do have a neighbor in Lendo. We have a house there and they've been there for quite a while and they're compatible. They come in to the bar, have a beer, visit with people. But at the same time, I think getting to know your neighbors, getting to know, understand what the potential for that ranch is.
(28:36):
I see a lot of people come in and I remember years ago, they said to Labor Day, all these things, and I said, “Well, you're going to have to move to another steak because you can't do all this. ” So well, we have this stuff called winter, usually about nine months of the year. And I think realistic expectations, number one, and I think the other thing is that realize that economically, these are not cash cows. It is expensive to owe and to own it, take care of it. Yeah, if you take care of it, it's less expensive, but sometimes when you're buying a place, you've got a lot of ketchup to do. There's a lot of deferred maintenance. There's a lot of those kinds of things, and you have to love what you're doing above everything else. Well, it's not going to be the same as hitting the stock market.
(29:35):
It's different kind of stock that you eat every day.
Haley Mirr (29:40):
But it's something you can enjoy every day too. That's what we always say. It's a different type of investment because you actually get to feel it. Is there anything we missed that you think would be imperative to share with our specific listener base?
Bob Budd (30:14):
Well, one thing I would tell you that I think people are hesitant to ask for fault, particularly new landowners, they're worried that anyway, when we went to recanting with all this debridement's very funny, but I wasn't afraid to ask them. I relied on the neighbors and they became mentors and some of them became my dearest friends and still are. And so I think it's okay to say, “Hey, I've got this thing I'm wondering.” And that's what we're here. Then call me. They could call the Department of Ag, they could talk to their local wildlife biologists.That's the greatest part of these jobs is being able to help somebody achieve a goal and do things that are beneficial to the land and water resource and create resilience in our landscapes. I
Haley Mirr (31:08):
Would agree. I think you made a good point. There's so many tools at your disposal. There's so much information, but there's a lot of experts to lead you down that path and you don't need to know it all. That's why people like you exist.
Bob Budd (31:20):
Well, the other part is that if we look, you don't have this little patron, but I need to fix a mirror, right? It's got some of the scruff flake off the backseat to see through it. It's a black spot. I got online and it was absolutely worthless. There were 600 things that what you could do to a mirror, none of which were what I wanted to do. So I finally went to one of the store and said, “I need Kate to fix a mirror.” And she walked over two aisles and said, “Here to this. ” And so not yourself, their advantages to buying local. And one of them is there's people there that know what they're talking about.
Haley Mirr (32:03):
Yep. 100%. Or it's like medical advice, going online to find it. You shouldn't do that. You should actually talk to the experts. I find myself in those just hurricanes a little bit, but that's great advice. And I think what you guys are doing is incredible. I think these kind of large scale opportunities from the statewide to the regional, this flow of ideas, it's imperative to make sure the habitat runs the way it should. Migration corridors exist the way they should. And so I'm just very appreciative and grateful for what you're doing up there, Bob.
Bob Budd (32:38):
Well, it's a joy to do it. No idea. It isn't always fun, but it's always worth it.
Haley Mirr (32:44):
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. I know you're a very busy man and imparting some of your knowledge and your lifelong work of helping the state of Wyoming.
Bob Budd (32:53):
Glad to do it. Glad you're doing the podcast. It's great.
Haley Mirr (32:57):
Thanks so much. Yeah, this is our little way of giving back and educating as much as we can.
Bob Budd (33:02):
Great.
Haley Mirr (33:03):
Awesome. Well, I'll see you soon, Bob. Thank you for being on the show.
Bob Budd (33:06):
Thank you.
Haley Mirr (33:08):
Thanks for joining us today. To learn more about the Ranch Real Estate Market or our ranch marketing process, make sure to subscribe to our newsletter on our website at murranchgroup.com or give us a call at 303-623-4545. See you next time.